WE'RE BACK! -- Under New Management!

[Fool]

The primary font is Adobe Garamond Pro in 10pt, with 1.15 line spacing. The majority of the text has 1/4" first line indents instead of new lines to separate paragraphs.

That's what I was afraid of. I like larger line spacing for separating paragraphs a lot more than just indents. Makes the text more readable in my opinion. When there's not that much text it doesn't really matter, but when you have a LOT of text, which is the case here, it reduces the strain on the eyes quite a bit. Couple that with the smaller font size...

This is something that I didn't realize until I viewed the picture Zemming linked and it took me a good few seconds of wondering why the new draft looked odd. Call it spending too much time on the internet or reading too many fanfics or even just personal preference, but I greatly like the spaces between paragraphs as opposed to only line indents (and as Scootayay said, it reduces eye strain). Also, the pictures added a nice touch to the chapters and they feel a little empty now without them.

Another thing that I'm genuinely curious about was the actual decision to change from five books down to two. As far as I've read and understood, the second printing failed because of external factors and not from a lack of money or interest. So why, if more then enough people wanted and could pay for five books in the first printing and in the failed second printing (there was a waiting list both times if I remember correctly), was it decided that it would be beneficial to cut costs and shrink the number of books as well as change the formatting without an open community vote or discussion? I only continued to check the website in the vain hope that the project would be started up again and while I'm thrilled that it has, it's not the product I was waiting for. I don't mean to come off negative or accusatory but at the end of the day you're going to be asking people for money for a product. If that product isn't what people want, they won't give you money for it.

As I said in my previous post and Chappy concurred with, it has been stated that we are welcome to get the book printed ourselves within certain guidelines but we don't have all the information we need to do that: cover graphic, spine graphics, hardcover type, paper quality, etc. It would be very helpful if this information was made public and not held above our heads. This isn't a corporation or a business, it's a fan project. While that allows a lot of leeway and understanding (especially in the volunteer aspect), the lack of transparency doesn't bode well.

[zemming]

So why, if more then enough people wanted and could pay for five books in the first printing and in the failed second printing (there was a waiting list both times if I remember correctly), was it decided that it would be beneficial to cut costs and shrink the number of books as well as change the formatting without an open community vote or discussion? I only continued to check the website in the vain hope that the project would be started up again and while I'm thrilled that it has, it's not the product I was waiting for.

We made the decision to do a reformatting in order to make the books more consistent with other published works. The formatting was heavily influenced by Watership Down, as it shares a similar theme, and overall layout. We also referenced other major literary works such as TLOR, The Inheritance Cycle, and the Redwall Series. All of which are well respected, and have had far more practiced designers format them. After we started working, we realized printing it in 5 books would not best suit the new formatting. We are respecting Kkat’s intent to have Fallout Equestria split into five volumes, and the best solution to combine five volumes, is two books.

We also have considered printing only one book, but that would require printing on rather lightweight paper, which most people do not prefer due to its fragile nature.

As I said in my previous post and Chappy concurred with, it has been stated that we are welcome to get the book printed ourselves within certain guidelines but we don't have all the information we need to do that: cover graphic, spine graphics, hardcover type, paper quality, etc. It would be very helpful if this information was made public and not held above our heads. This isn't a corporation or a business, it's a fan project. While that allows a lot of leeway and understanding (especially in the volunteer aspect), the lack of transparency doesn't bode well.

There is plenty of information on the forums regarding printing a personal copy. In the interest of brevity, that will not be reposted here. We are not holding any information above anyone's head. All the work we have done is either original, and/or based off of other publicly available resources. We have been doing all we can to ensure the entire project is transparent. All of our planning is performed on publicly accessible IRC, where we welcome any input. Occasionally we discuss specific details (such as deciding between 10 different versions of the memory orb break) over Skype, but almost nothing gets to that point without having been discussed on IRC first.

[yetanothername]

Another thing that I'm genuinely curious about was the actual decision to change from five books down to two. As far as I've read and understood, the second printing failed because of external factors and not from a lack of money or interest. So why, if more then enough people wanted and could pay for five books in the first printing and in the failed second printing (there was a waiting list both times if I remember correctly), was it decided that it would be beneficial to cut costs and shrink the number of books as well as change the formatting without an open community vote or discussion? I only continued to check the website in the vain hope that the project would be started up again and while I'm thrilled that it has, it's not the product I was waiting for. I don't mean to come off negative or accusatory but at the end of the day you're going to be asking people for money for a product. If that product isn't what people want, they won't give you money for it.

Throughout most of January and most of February there a very active discussion on our IRC channel (#FalloutEquestriaBook on Canternet, linked to in multiple places on this website). There are certain economies of scale issues at play here, namely the fact that as our quantities increase (i.e. we get more orders) some costs go down (e.g. the printing paper) but other costs remain fixed (e.g. the labor to put it together). [1, Page 336] This means that when we order 800 sets of books it’ll be cheaper to order 1600 bindings than 4000 bindings. (Having made several books before I can say this: binding is more expensive than paper, almost by an order of magnitude) Furthermore not everyone can afford about $70-$80 for a set of hardcover books. (I actually agree with you when you said it was a very fair price) so in the process of reformatting (I’ll get to why in a moment) it was decided to go with fewer books to make them cheaper (remember paper is cheaper with volume but not labor) so even more people can afford it, which brings the cost down even more.

I am one of those disappointed that it won't be a 5 book project. If the other printing hadn't been canceled, I'd have my books right now and not care at all if the number changed. However, that isn't the case and I need to go over my options like I'm sure others are as well. I have no qualms looking for a company to print them myself but nowhere can I find the graphics used for the covers as well as the spines of the books; nor do I know the type of hardcover used (I assume cloth, but that's just from looks).

It'd be nice to have that information to help people make sound decisions and perhaps even company names that are printers only (not publishers) since I'd guess it has already been researched thoroughly.

Also, I might not be the majority but I'll pay more for more books (which is why with more information I might have to get them printed myself). That's not to say I'm completely uninteresting in this new printing, but I'd really like to price out all my options before committing.

Anyway, I have to mirror the sentiments of Fool (again), if there is a list of printers, the exact PDF's used and the cover images used for the last printing/the canceled printing plus any other information on the printing that it would be nice to have so as to at least have the option, I'm not opposed to paying a bit more for the five volume set.

All the information we have right now we got from browsing these forums. There are several vectors in the book that we have redone ourselves but since I did not do them it is not my call when to release them.

As to printing a single copy yourself, having extrapolated from the quotes we did receive, a single set of the five volumes from the original printing would cost about $400 to $600, depending on the options you choose when reprinting. Of course these numbers will go down with volume.

That's what I was afraid of. I like larger line spacing for separating paragraphs a lot more than just indents. Makes the text more readable in my opinion. When there's not that much text it doesn't really matter, but when you have a LOT of text, which is the case here, it reduces the strain on the eyes quite a bit. Couple that with the smaller font size...

This is something that I didn't realize until I viewed the picture Zemming linked and it took me a good few seconds of wondering why the new draft looked odd. Call it spending too much time on the internet or reading too many fanfics or even just personal preference, but I greatly like the spaces between paragraphs as opposed to only line indents (and as Scootayay said, it reduces eye strain). Also, the pictures added a nice touch to the chapters and they feel a little empty now without them.

It turns out that the number one cause for eye strain in books is not the spacing of the text but the contrast between the ink and the paper. In this case we will be using black ink on pure white paper. [2, Page 161] Furthermore, according to multiple sources (as well as my entire bookshelf), it is standard in the book formatting industry to indent paragraphs instead of using newlines. [3] When reading an online story it is standard to use newlines because on a computer it does not matter how long the text is. When every additional page increases the cost of a book, it does.

It was decided that, for this printing, to reformat the books to bring them up to professional standards regarding a variety of things. This decision was not made in a vacuum, nor by a power hungry dictator. It was made in our open, public, IRC channel. (#FalloutEquestriaBook on Canternet). In the process of reformatting the text the decision (again on the IRC channel) was made to consolidate the volumes to see if we could save any cost. After talking on the phone with the printer for a while it was determined that two books would provide a significant savings from five. Because we are not completely done with reformatting the text we are unconfirmable with releasing the exact numbers but please trust me that it's worth it.

As to the chapter images, it is still possible to include them however it will result in a several week delay because each image needs to be handled individually in order to ensure that they are up to industry standards to prepare them for print. In a "real" publishing house it's not uncommon for every image in a book to take the typesetter up to a day to process. [3, 226]

[1] "Microeconomics, Third Edition" by Krugman, Paul.
[2] "Modern Book Production" by Harrop, Dorthy
[3] http://www.fimfiction.net/writing-guide ... ph-spacing
[4] "The Making of Books" by Jennett Sean

[Jusey1]

I don't really know what to say without being mean so... I'm keeping out of the debate cause some things which has been said I found a bit offensive and indirectly mean on their own...


However, I will point out that I cannot afford the 5 books cost but should easily afford the 2 books cost, if I'm doing the math correctly on the price reduction.... Though if the 2 books cost doesn't drop below 70, then I'm gonna be very unhappy. (I currently only have 70 dollars saved for whatever I want right now and don't know when I'll get more)...

[zemming]

I will point out that I cannot afford the 5 books cost but should easily afford the 2 books cost, if I'm doing the math correctly on the price reduction.... Though if the 2 books cost doesn't drop below 70, then I'm gonna be very unhappy. (I currently only have 70 dollars saved for whatever I want right now and don't know when I'll get more)...

It probably would not be worth the effort reformatting to only save $16. As long as you are in the US (international shipping is super expensive), you should be able to afford the books.

[Jusey1]

I'm in the US, yesh.

And I'm assuming the price being around 40-50 area btw. Which I think is a fair assumption but who knows! I just can't wait to get this!

[Chappy]

All the information we have right now we got from browsing these forums. There are several vectors in the book that we have redone ourselves but since I did not do them it is not my call when to release them.

As to printing a single copy yourself, having extrapolated from the quotes we did receive, a single set of the five volumes from the original printing would cost about $400 to $600, depending on the options you choose when reprinting. Of course these numbers will go down with volume.

....Yikes, that's a bit above my price range. I guess I'll have to consider this printing then.



I guess I can appreciate the changes since they are based off of studying other major novels. I personally prefer new lines instead of just indents but I've dealt with is before (I've read a number of the series that were studied) so it's not really a deal breaker and I've never had problems with eye strain.


Going to have to mirror Fool again though, I much prefer the chapter images. I've waited this long for this, I'm not opposed to a bit of a longer wait; not sure how everyone else feels about that though.

[zemming]

Going to have to mirror Fool again though, I much prefer the chapter images. I've waited this long for this, I'm not opposed to a bit of a longer wait; not sure how everyone else feels about that though.

My sample formatting does not include chapter art, because I personally am not a fan of it, and we needed to get started on formatting. I am not alone with my stance on chapter art. There has been discussion in other parts of the forums that share my views [1] [2]. We are exploring ways to work the art into the chapter openings, but that's still under consideration.

Part of the problem with waiting, is fulfillment. We need the books before Fall classes start up again so we have time to ship them out. A delay may not seem like much right now, but it could put us in a crunch come August. We are exploring solutions that would prevent that from being an issue and allow us to spend more time working on the formatting, maybe have dust jackets included, and have uncapped signups. Right now though, that's still being researched, and we can't guarantee anything.



Also, since people seemed to like yetanothername's short dissertation, I'm going to try to be more open with my answers. I just usually try to keep them concise to avoid misinterpretation. If you have any questions, please use a question mark. Without it, it's sometimes difficult to discern between an actual inquiry, and a general complaint. I apologize if my misunderstanding of anyone's intent caused me to leave their questions unanswered.

[Worldenterer]

A few quick questions for you, Zemming...

Is it a definite that there will be a second printing?
How will you notify people of the time when they can begin signing up and making purchases?


Also, as a side note. I just wanted to say how appreciative I am of everybody taking part in making this happen. Listening to the Fallout: Equestria audio book on YouTube was one of the greatest times I've ever had. I really look forward to getting the printed version. Thank you all so much.

[Jusey1]

And I'm still curious of how to make the payment? I mean, the only way Ik of paying for something over online is credit/debit stuff or paypal...

I mean, ya did mentioned something earlier but I have no idea what it is...